Pastor Israel Olubori a.k.a Father of Nations as fondly called is one of the leading Pastors in Nigeria. He and his wife, Prophetess Mary Olubori, are the Founders/Ministers of God in charge of the popular Salvation Church, both in Nigeria and abroad.
Many people, especially their church members call them “Ipe Meji To Di Eyo Kan” i.e two different callings that became one. Why? Pastor Israel Olubori is known to be a teacher of the word. He is very deep and eloquent, while the wife is a confirmed prophetess. And this has generated many questions from people on how they’ve been running both the mountain and the church.
Recently, Pastor Israel Olubori was in Nigeria, and a few days ago, City People Publisher, SEYE KEHINDE and Head of City People TV Crew, Sunday Adigun spent quality time with the Pastor. In this exclusive interview, he spoke about the many misconceptions about his wife, Prophetess Mary Olubori; how they’ve been running their ministry in the last 24 years and how they both complement each other in the ministry. Below are the excerpts of the interview.
How has it been so far, running the church?
The church and the prophetic ministry are two different entitles. My wife was called into prophetic ministry even before the church started. And we give glory to God when I came on board; the foundation of the church was laid on October 1st to commemorate her birthday in 1997 and we got married in November 1997 and since then, we have been giving glory to God. But one thing is that there are many things people don’t understand about Rock of Salvation Apostolic Church. It is what you want to see that you will see. Many people followed Christ Jesus, but not many people benefited from the anointing and the grace of God upon His life because some were interested in being spectators, some were just followers; they were enjoying what they were doing and saying, but some knew what they wanted, they went for it and they got it.
So, not everyone who was sick got healed even with Christ Jesus, it depends on the motive. The lady with the issue of blood in the Bible made up her mind before she even left her home. She knew what she wanted and she went straight for it. So, people can be in a church for donkey years and still not get anything from the church, sometimes because of familiarity. Back to the question; being a prophet and my own calling being more of Apostolic because I receive impartation through the Apostolic Callings from CAC. I was born and bred a Muslim, but I attended The Apostolic Church through my brother, who was in the North then. But when we eventually started together, the prophet brought the people to the ministry. It’s like throwing the net inside water and when the net brings out turtles, fishes, frogs etc then, as a teacher you now sit down to hand pick.
So, it’s a duty that is a bit difficult. Some will come and start comparing our church with other churches. Yes, we are a Gospel church as well, but the focus of many when they are coming to ROSAC they didn’t tell them to come to church to worship as going to an oracle for consultation. And once most of these people get their problem solved, they believe they have not come to stay until or else you have something better than what had to make them to stay. You must be able to convince them. So, in those days, they would say, “don’t mind them they don’t have the word, we are just going there for prophecy” No, Rock of Salvation is not just prophecy but prophecy brings the people to the church. So, we thank God for bringing people to the Ministry and the power that preserves them from then till now. We all give glory to the Almighty. So, Rock of Salvation is not just a Prophetic Church. Mama Olubori is not just a dancing prophetess, she’s a dual carriageway. Let me tell you, we’ve been through too many self-denials. In the first 12 years of the ministry, there was nothing called enjoyment for the first 12 years. We didn’t go for a holiday. We spent all our days and time on the mountain. We cannot continue on self-denial all our lives. The fact that she now dresses well, she looks fine, the dances do not mean God is still not using her like before.
I know of a prophet, a white garment church prophet who if he didn’t smoke weed, he won’t be able to prophesy. There is a prophet in the Bible who said: beat me, strike me and then I’ll prophesy. So sometimes people have their own peculiar gifts. And in the ministry, people who are close to prophetic ministry must know that ministry of prophet thrives on song and music. Mostly, to receive prophecy and to enter the spirit. They need to sing. That is why you will find out that most prophets are good singers. Like Mama Olubori, she can sing and she can dance. It helps her to connect to the spiritual realm. To connect the spiritual realms is like a journey, the more you sing, the more you praise God then the more revelations. You cannot compare my ministry with hers. I have an Apostolic Calling. My own is basically the word and the Authority. So, I should not compare myself with her and she must not compare her own with mine, we are just there to complement and complete each other. These are some of the things people should realise, it’s not just one-way traffic. God has brought the 2 together. Another thing; you hardly find prophetic and Apostolic Churches agreeing, even in the scripture.
The Apostolic is purely the word and when it comes to the prophetic, you can never see a prophetic ministry that will not require you to bring something either water or anointing. That is why somebody like Elisha will say bring salt in the Bible. You cannot compare it with a purely Apostolic Ministry, but everyone in his own calling; in his/her own office. A should not rubbish B. But that is the most problem we have in Christiandom. One church is claiming to be bigger than others. One office is claiming to be bigger than the other officers. They have forgotten that we are just one body, working together for one master, one God, one Lord, one King, one anointing, one spirit and one word. So, there must be that agreement. But I found out these days, that the Apostolic don’t like the prophetic. It’s now a divided house in Christiandom. But God has been able to help us to merge the two, to form a very strong force, to be reckoned with. We give all glory to the Almighty God.
You said Mummy Olubori is dual-natured. What is the point you are trying to make?
Dual Nature in the sense that, if she’s on the mountain, she will deny herself food and she won’t get tired. She’s an extremist. Anything she wants to do she does it to the extreme. And when she’s out of the mountain and she wants to live her life, she does it to the maximum. But what many people don’t know is grace. She carries it always (laugh) when people start talking, that she did this, she did that, do you know where we started from? Do you know the grace God has given her? I was there when God gave her the grace to use many things she denied herself. You don’t know the grace that I enjoy and you don’t have to compare yourself with me. So, everybody operates according to his/her call, stay on your lane. Remhard Bonke was an Evangelist, just an Evangelist. He didn’t want to be called a Pastor or Bishop. And yet Bishops, Pastors, Prophets and Apostles worked under him, because he stood where God called him to be. People should know their callings. They should know their office and stop criticising others. Don’t say because you are a bishop, you are an Apostle then others are not working for God. Sometimes, you can compare two anointing(s) together. I don’t want to be like Baba Adeboye, I want to be Olubori. I don’t want to be like Prophet Elijah, I just want to be myself. That is life, it’s about knowing what God has called you to do and fulfilling that ministry.
At Rock of Salvation, our slogan is Service to God through humanity. No one can serve God because you have never seen God. Nobody fasts for God, none of us prays for God. Everything we do, we do it for people. We serve God through humanity. How do you work for God when you don’t work for people? When we pray for people, we are working for God. So, no matter how much you deny yourself if God has given you some grace to enjoy, then so be it. Some will say “Why is she using gold” When we started she was not using anything. I remembered when she went to Germany in 2003 or 2004, she came, and she said “daddy, you are my husband, I looked like a man, I want to start using earings” We prayed about it and God gave her the grace to use it, it is not a sin. So, using gold is not a sin. God created gold. The first gift they gave to Jesus was gold. We should stop giving the glory that is due to God to the devil. The Bible says: God created all good things for us to use. It is when you make gods out of those things that it becomes a sin. But I thank God for her life, she’s been a blessing.
How do you take tribulations and challenges that come with what you do?
According to the scripture, John 3:17-19 talks about Light coming into the world and the world hated the light, why? Because it exposes them. It is standard for a prophet to have enemies because your ministry is to expose the work of darkness. How would they be your friends? When you keep exposing them, they will want to kill you. So, she’s a prime target, and with passion, she’s been hated. I remembered in 1999 when we had our first serious deliverance. When somebody went to a tree and brought out the power of witchcraft. For the first time, we saw the real knife being used in a witchcraft coven, to kill people in the spirit realm. They are still members of the church to date. Who witnessed it? We set everything on fire and threw the knife in a pit latrine. From time to time, we keep holding deliverance to expose the devil, and that has brought much persecution. They say so many scandalous things about the church. This has brought many issues. But we know the forces of light and darkness are not in common. We are unequally yoked. I remember when we were at Ogbere, Ibadan, one herbalist came to us, he told us to join forces with him to work together. He said that’s how many Pastors around used to do. We bluntly rejected him. This same man sent his wife who was one of our ushers then to come and pack sand in our church. She was exposed and we sent her away. I remember we went to the man’s house, to preach Christ to him, to change, but he said at his age what do we want him to eat? We told him to learn a trade, and he started coming to church to ask us for money, without even learning a trade, he just wanted to dupe us, but we left him. So, the challenge was on and off. The greatest one was in 2007; We were on the mountain for 90 day+. There was a time the Holy Spirit told us we should not take our baths for 21 days. Our beginning was so tedious that was what led us to Lagos. So many tribulations, but we give glory to God.
Many people will tell lies against us. But we have accepted that as our fate. I remember one night at Ogbere and a boy suddenly got missing, the boy was even a son of a Police Officer in the church. I was praying in-door and they were knocking on my door, shouting. They told us to come out and they were searching our bedroom to see whether we’ve kept the boy there. Not knowing that the boy just woke to urinate, he was a somnambulist and he walked away. There was no vigil that night. We kept on praying and searching. When it was 7 am in the morning we went to the Police station and we found him there. So, we’ve been through so much. Somebody came some time ago at Ogbere. A man came that he wanted to sell his land. Another one bought the land for 20,000. Later they came to arrest me that we took somebody’s land from them not knowing that the two men actually agreed to lie against us. My wife went to the mountain to pray that morning. I was detained at the Police Station from afternoon till late in the evening. Later, one of them came, the one who bought the land too came, and the Police Officers discovered that they knew each other, and that was how they were able to debunk their story. They even said they paid a tithe of N2000, I have to return the N2000 that night after they confessed that they wanted to use it against us. People will just cook up one story just to bring you down. So, we believe it’s our fate. If Jesus could face such persecution, then who are we. It’s part of the assignment and we have accepted the way it is.
Let’s talk about your church expansion, how has it been over the years?
We give glory to God. We were at Ogbere till 2002, in 2003 we moved to Sanyo, from Sanyo in 2005, we moved to Havilah Mountain of Fire when God gave us the place. In that 2005 another branch started there. Eventually, in 2007, there was a message that we should go to Lagos. From Lagos, in 2008 we went to London till this day. I don’t so much like the idea of having too many branches any longer. We planned to have maybe 1 in the US, 1 in the UK, then merge the two in Nigeria. It’s not about how many branches you have, it’s about how many people’s lives you are able to change. My principle is save life don’t save money. We make sure we support people in the Ministry with whatever we have. Here at Rock of Salvation, we practise practical Christianity. Social media has also added another dimension to it, in terms of live programmes. We have members all over the world who always join us. Most of our services are on live programmes as well. So, God has really endowed the ministry. All the 5 gold ministerial gifts are in Rock of Salvation Church. We give glory to God.
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