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Gov. SEYI MAKINDE Explains
A few days ago, Oyo State governor, Mr Seyi Makinde, recently held a media interaction in Ibadan, the capital with selected media professionals from across the country. He spoke on a number of issues, including how he’s been running Oyo State since 2019, his relationship with Nyesom Wike, his issues with local government autonomy, and why he regrets supporting President Tinubu in 2023, among others. Below are excerpts.
What are your views about Local Government Autonomy?
There are so many inconsistencies here. For instance, they created LCDAs in Lagos. Is that consistent with local government autonomy?
What are you saying when you have created LCDAS? Are you not saying that the local government should be under the state? So how come now suddenly…? So I know there’s a Supreme Court Judgment on this matter, but some of these things may not be resolved strictly through the judicial process.
Some, you have to negotiate a political solution and things like that. I think this judicial process. Some, you have to negotiate a political solution and things like that. I think this will fall into that category where people should honestly come to the table and say we have issues with this area or that area. We can’t keep shifting. If you are at the sub-national level, you take one position. If you’re at the federal level, you take another position. I don’t think that should be it.
Your Excellency, you said politics is a game but governance is not. But politics is a sort of party governance. So how do you ensure that governance and party functions are separated, bearing in mind some of the things that have been happening in the PDP in recent years?
I’ll start by saying that we’ve tried several constitutions, you know. We started with the parliamentary system, and then we went to the presidential, right? When you’re seeking votes, you know, you go out, engage with the people, you can promise them heaven and earth, right? But if you’re given the opportunity to serve the people, you have to deliver, and you have to deliver not only to the people of your own to deliver not only to the people of your own party. We engage at the federal level and say, look, we think you should do this for the states. And then we hear things like, oh no, you cannot empower your enemy or your competitor. With what?
Yes, we’ll play the game. While we’re campaigning, you will say all sorts of things, you know, about the other parties. You try to sell your own programmes and policies.
But once it comes to governance, the game because destinies are involved, even generations yet unborn can be impacted. I had a meeting with the Cabinet secretary in Kenya. That is the equivalent of, maybe SGF in Nigeria, the number three citizen out there. He said to me while we were in his office watching the drama in Gaza between Israeli and the Palestinians. And then he said, look, this could have actually been Kenya. Because when they were looking for land to create the state of Israel, Kenya was actually considered. And that bill was defeated by one vote in parliament.
So some of the things we do in governance bill was defeated by one vote in parliament. So some of the things we do in governance, we may think, oh, ok, this is just easy. But generations yet unborn are impacted.
If you know my political trajectory, this is my very first job in the public sector. And I got the job when I was 51. So what happened to me between zero and 51? And I’ll be 58 on Christmas day. So what happened to me between zero and 51? I operated in the private sector. And I operated not only in Nigeria, but, you know, across different continents. I believe once prayers have been answered – because nobody can get anything without God giving it to that individual. And even leadership, you cannot become a leader by yourself, it is because God has given that position to you. And he will give people the kind of leaders they deserve at any particular time. In the Bible, God allowed a wicked king to be enthroned because at that particular time, God decided that that is the kind of king the people deserved. But that is usually not the end of the story.
So I will say that in Nigeria today, we have to rise above partisanship. This may go straight into the issue within PDP. I say everybody has defected and I’m saying I’m not moved because the people that negotiated Nigeria, they have two major things that were in there, in that negotiation. First, federalism. That’s why they call us the Federal Republic of Nigeria.
Two, multi-party democracy. That is why, upon independence, you had Action Group, you had Northern People’s Congress, you had NEPU, you had NCNC. You understand? At independence, it was a multi-party democracy. So, now you are moving the country towards a one-party state. It won’t work. I was in Ebonyi State recently and they brought kola to me and said, in Igbo land, if you are receiving a big visitor, this is how you do it. I said, well, kolanuts is in the west, eaten in the north, and literally worshiped in the east. So you have different nations, different cultures within the nation called Nigeria.
And the people who negotiated our independence felt that it was okay to have unity in that diversity, it has to be a federal arrangement. If you move the country towards a one-party state, what happens the day you require a multi-party or bipartisan approach to issues? Who are you going to call? The day you move the country towards a one-party state, you remember what happened with the Arab Sping. Once people don’t have leadership, they will find leaders by all means. So we better get our acts together as political leaders in this country. That will be my own approach to your question.
Talking about PDP, I know there was a time you were in the G5, and that G5 actually supported the president. What happened concerning your relationship between the president and your friend, Nyesom Wike…? What happened, because at some point, everybody thought it was all rosy?
Okay, I contested the election for the first time in 2007 to go to the Senate here in Oyo State. And, well, I lost. I contested under the All Nigeria Peoples Party (ANPP). I was in PDP with Oba Rashidi Ladoja. You remember his Impeachment and all of that, all the shenanigans that happened within that period? So it wasn’t possible. The PDP franchise was handed over to Baba Lamidi Adedibu. And me as a person, as a 39-year-old trying to get Into politics for the first time, I didn’t like that brand of politics. And I said I wasn’t going to be Involved with that brand of politics. That was why I contested under ANPP. But abinitio my first outing in politics, I joined PDP. So, we lost. We came back 2011 in PDP again. They didn’t even allow me to go past the party primaries. So I lost. And then I said, look, I’ve been dealing with people here. I think since I’ve lost twice at the senatorial level, let me move up, let me promote myself to the governorship level.
So I contested in 2015 to be the governor of the state. Again, I lost. But my point is, in all of this journey, I never interacted with, or went to Bourdillon (Bola Tinubu’s Lagos home). No. I my own. Whatever I couldn’t get through to the people of Oyo State, I left it like that. I don’t believe in godfatherism in politics. So I didn’t go. I stayed here. But 2019, the people of Oyo State decided. Did they decide because there is influence of anybody from Bourdillon or from outside of the state? The answer is no.
So, in 2023, we felt that after eight years of President Buhari who hailed from the north, the presidency should come to the south. And I need to also say this: I don’t believe that will be a permanent arrangement in Nigeria. I believe Nigeria will get to a point where, if you like, two Ibibio people can be president and vice president as long as they are qualified. And we have strong institutions that will ensure that they do what is right for the people of Nigeria.
So we felt that the presidency should come to the South. And within my party, Nyesom Wike was contesting, I supported him. He lost in the primaries. And then the Waziri, former Vice President (Atiku Abubakar), won; he is from the north. But I said, look, if our party has selected somebody from the north then we should sit down and decide how this thing is going to work.
Atiku came to Ibadan. We were at Ogunlesi Hall at the UCH and we mentioned to him that you are the candidate of the party, you are from the North-East; Iyorchia Ayu, the National Chairman of the party, is from North Central. And in that meeting, we were facing the press. I didn’t tell him this at the Government House? No.
I said Governor Aminu Tambuwal, as of that time, was the Chairman of PDP Governors Forum. I said intelligence indicated that you will appoint him as the DG of this campaign. He is from the North-West. So what are we supposed to use to campaign to convince people because politics is a game of numbers? But we couldn’t reach any agreement.
We met We met with him in London. The only thing I said to him in London was, allow us to go and remove Iyorchia Ayu and then make Taofeek Arapaja the acting Chairman because he was the Deputy National Chairman (South) at that time.
Make Arapaja the Chairman, he will be at the table when you are all talking and deciding. In London, I said just agree with us to go and remove Ayu. Don’t even bother about how we will do it. He said we should give him one week to decide. He came back to Nigeria and we heard that famous statement that those ‘small boys’ and that he had moved on. Okay, so if he moved on, what would I do? We had to do something. That is politics. So we couldn’t reach that agreement. And it wasn’t Wike that guaranteed the president (Tinubu) before me.
Because I had never had any political dealings with him (Tinubu) up until that point, someone else did the linking. I said, okay, fine. If this is what we will do, we will support you. But even as a candidate, I must have mentioned it three or four times that our expectation would be a government of national unity; a government of national competence where you could start the process of re-setting this country.
But is it what we are seeing right now? Is it a government of national competence? Is it a government of national unity? The answer is no. When the president asked me to nominate somebody who may be appointed as a minister, I said, sir, what position do you want to give to us in Oyo State? Then he said, ‘I’m looking for a developmental economist who can be the Minister of Budget and Economic Planning’. I said, okay. I will look for somebody that fits that bill. And I sent somebody’s name, who is an Oyo State indigene to him. The individual wasn’t appointed. Rather, they selected the current Minister of Power (Adebayo Adelabu). He wasn’t taken to the Ministry of Budget and Economic Planning. He was taken to the Ministry of Power.
At subsequent meeting with the president, I think I must have gone to him to seek approval for the upgrade of the Ibadan airport. He said, ‘I’ll sign it for you. I’ll give you my nod. But, oh, sit down. What’s happening politically? I heard you are upset because your nominee was not given the ministerial slot. I said, ‘sir, in Yoruba land, if you don’t want the pregnancy to be aborted, you won’t want the baby to die because it’s easier to abort a pregnancy than to kill a baby’ I said, ‘you will decide at the end of the day who you want to work with. We can only suggest people. But if you know people that fit your bill, the kind of individuals you want in your cabinet, ours is just to support you. However, let me say this. If you’ve selected the
Minister of Power because you want him to help you organise APC in our state, he doesn’t have the capacity’. I told the president.
He said, ‘no, no, no, Seyi; it is you that I want to help me organise APC in Oyo State.’ I said, ‘no, sir, I can never help you organise APC in Oyo State because I am of the PDP’.
So, if we have a government of national unity, a government of national competence, we would have been in a very different environment right now.
And let me just mention again this issue of Wike. So, this (displays a contract award paper) was the exact first contract that Mobil gave to my company, Makon (Makon Engineering and Technical Services Limited). I was 29. It was $1 million. They subsequently added two other contracts such that within that one year (1997-1998), I had $1 million in my pocket. I was 29. 1997/98. Wike perhaps at that time just left the Law School. And then his next job after that was Local Government Chairman. And the trajectory was…
I don’t ‘beef’ anybody. But the real issue is that I was in a meeting with the president and Wike. And I’m saying this in an open chat. The President’s Chief of Staff was also in that meeting with a few other people. And Wike said to the president: ‘Sir, I will hold PDP for you against 2027’. I was in shock. So when we got to the veranda. I said, Wike, did we agree to this?
I don’t like talking about people and I will not talk about people or talk about events. But I’ll talk about the real issue. The real issue is that Wike would like to support the president for 2027. That’s fine. It is within his right to do that. But also some of us that want to ensure that democracy survives in Nigeria, we don’t drift Into a one-party state. And we want to ensure that PDP survives. He should also allow us to do our own thing. That is just the issue between me and Wike. And I confided in a mutual friend do our own thing. That is just the issue between me and Wike. And I confided in a mutual friend of ours after that meeting. And I kept thinking, okay, I mean, the president did not ask him to do this for me. He was the one that volunteered that I will do that. I said to our mutual friend, look, maybe he was talking about an errand that the president never sent him. So, let’s watch. Let’s engage him. Let’s see if he will back off. But he never did. After he didn’t back off, I said, well, now it’s time to confront him, because I told him from that day that I will never be a part of this. And that is why I will not be supporting the president for 2027. Wike can support him. It is within his right. But also it is within my own right to decide within the political space who I will support or what I will do in 2027.
We now understand the real reason why there is a conflict in the PDP. Now, the party is divided along two lines. The one being led by Taminu Turaki is claiming that it is the rightful one. And I remember that INEC called the two parties to a meeting. Now, with the state PDP now found itself currently, in the forthcoming off-season elections and in 2027, does the party stand a chance? Nigeria needs a credible opposition. You’ve mentioned it that the country is fast moving towards a one-party state. Does PDP have any chance?
Well, the president has the power to call his minister to order and say allow democracy to survive in Nigeria. And by the way, the way PDP is today, there is no faction in PDP. We held a convention here in Ibadan. We gave adequate notice to INEC, which is all that we are required to do under the law. So, it will take INEC some time if they choose to behave like the ostrich, bury their head and leave all of their bodies outside. And, for the current INEC Chairman, the job is very difficult to start with. Now, to hide all of these things that they are not supposed to hide. They basically called the two sides together. They played our people. They invited them and said, we want to engage with the leadership of PDP.
And then, they got there and found out that they also invited Anyanwu and co. I said, that’s even silly to start with. Pardon my language. So, why did they not call Damagun? It was Anyanwu that was the Secretary when Damagun was there as Chairman. And the notice that went to INEC was a notice signed by both Damagun and Anyanwu. I wanted to basically ask that they expel Anyanwu at NEC. But our leaders came and said let us not do that. Let’s get the two of them together, you know, and all of that. So, the Supreme Court already said whoever is your secretary is the internal affair of the party.
There was a Supreme Court judgment on SDP, how many days ago, saying exactly the same thing. So, we had a proper convention in Ibadan. And Wike and the rest of those people were expelled, and they’ve been expelled even if the court says the convention is not valid, which I don’t think is possible, because up to the Supreme Court it is already said these are Internal affairs of the party. So, they can only delay things. But there may be unintended consequences for trying to kill the PDP There’s a danger that if you do that, you may unknowingly kill democracy in this country, God forbid. So, that is my own position.
It’s interesting what you just revealed. The question young people have been asking for the last couple of years is, isn’t the governor of Oyo State and those who used to be part of the G5 not embarrassed what they have caused the PDP? How do you respond to them? What do you say to these young people?
Good governance, sustainable development, it’s all about a journey of the people. And I said it earlier, I can make mistakes, I’m human. I supported the current president, even though in another party at that time, because I thought, even though I never dealt directly with him.
I thought we would do what is right for the country. Reset the country, like I said, bring people from all over that can help the country. But unfortunately, that is not what we’re seeing. So I regret that action. Yes, I do. I mean, if people say what have you done? Well, I’m not above mistakes. Even up until this moment, I say to people-because people have been calling me-Seyi, you can take the approach of siddon look, just keep yourself, and then let this wave go away. They even went as far as saying that by the time you’ll be done with your position as governor of your state, you’ll be 59. Even if you wait for 8 years, you’ll be 67. You can contest if you want to contest. I said, look, what are we afraid of? Is it death? If you’re afraid of death, will that stop you from dying? What can it do to you? If you’re afraid of death, what it can do to you is that it won’t allow you to live your life freely. So we’re not going to do that. I’m not afraid to speak my mind.
I’m also not afraid to apologise to people when I wrong them, because it’s only God that is all-knowing, that knows the end from the beginning. I am not, maybe people may think because I was born on Christmas Day, they may think, you know, maybe I know too much. No.
So, having admitted that you regret your actions then, you seem to be trying to correct what happened that time. And to the elephant in the room, are you planning to take the bull by the horn, run for president in 2027?
Well, I’ve heard that also. I’ve heard people saying, oh, it’s Seyi trying to position himself for the 2027 presidency. Let me make this very clear. I am qualified to serve this country at the highest level. I’m even overqualified. I’ve run Oyo State. Even the current president, what brought him to the table? He was governor of Lagos State – two terms. By the end of May 2027 God sparing my life, I would have been to the end of the tunnel as a two-term governor of Oyo State. So, what are we talking? Professionally, I ran a company from a very young age, at 29. Some of my colleagues were just finishing their youth service at that point. I ran the company, and people can go out there and check. I did not go to NNPC, you know, or the likes to get contracts.
I was working for multinational oil companies. I worked for Shell, Exxon Mobil, and Chevron. To the extent that at a point, I went on holiday to my house in Houston, Exxon Mobil came to me and said, look, we want to work in your neighbourhood. We have work to do in Chad and Cameroon, on the Chad-Cameroon pipeline project. I personally, I was in Kribi, where they positioned the FSO. I sent engineers to Chad, I sent engineers to Cameroon. You can’t go there because you’re Nigerian, no. You can only go there because professionally, they have trust in you. I worked on the West African gas pipeline. ABB came to us and said, look, from Lagos, you know, to Tema in Ghana. I was in Tema myself because when I started, during the day, I was working as a Field Engineer. At night as the General Manager. I couldn’t even tell people on my card that I own the company. Because they would look at me and say, you own which company?
So, I sent engineers to Equatorial Guinea. We worked on the Equatorial Guinea LNG. All of those things were because professionally, we did what was right. I could have joined politics in 1998 because I made enough money to do that. But I won’t tell you I’m a foundation member of PDP, no. I joined PDP in 2002. And why did I join? I joined solely because of Baba Ladoja. I joined to support him towards the 2003 elections. I already moved my family to the U.S. then, in the year 2000. I had a wife and a daughter at that time. We had the second one in December of 2000. And I moved my office from Port Harcourt to Lagos. So, most weekends, no family, nothing. So, I came to Ibadan to meet my parents. One thing led to the other.
From that place, I commissioned the classroom block that I gave to my alma mater, Bishop Phillips Academy, Ibadan. They brought Governor Lam Adeshina to do the commissioning at that time. And I gave him a proposal for the farm settlements here – the power solution. He said, okay, my assistant will call you. I waited. Nobody called me. So, going towards 2003, I thought if a professional is elected as the governor of Oyo State, maybe things might be one shade better.
At this point, you need to have a party. You need to have a competitive political environment. At Ebonyi, I said to the Igbo nation out there that, in 1999, we’re going to have an almost very similar situation that we’re In today. All the generals, all the elites, you know, they were all gravitating towards PDP, until Ogbonnaya Onu gave up his presidential ticket in APP to have APP and AD join together and they produced Baba Olu Falae and Umar Shinkafi. And the environment became instantly competitive. So, I’m not fixated on running or not running.
Right now, if I correctly calibrate the environment, we have to go beyond PDP. We have to channel our energy towards having a competitive political environment. And that means we need to talk across the board. We need to start talking about survival of democracy in Nigeria. Individual ambition is tertiary, not even secondary.
We need everybody, we should keep talking. Even people within the APC that are not happy there. We will talk to them also. We should all keep talking because we run the risk of the Arab Spring. You have people without leadership, a shoemaker will be made a leader for them and they will show us shege. In fact, people should write it down. What Nigerian people will show politicians and elites in 2027, we cannot imagine it right now. And when they say governors are defecting and all of that, what about hunger? Where is the place of hunger and anger in the land? Have they defected?
You see, if we don’t do what is right for democracy to survive in Nigeria, it will be very difficult in the foreseeable future. So the issue of running or not running and things like that is still far off. At this stage, we must ensure a competitive political environment.
