•Reveals How CLAM Has Remained Relevant To Society
Pastor Wole Oladiyun is the Senior Pastor of Christ Livingspring Apostolic Ministry (CLAM), Lagos. He is married to Pastor Bukola Oladiyun (nee Olubakinde) and they are blessed with 4 prophetic children and grandchildren.
In the next few weeks, his wife will turn 60, and he will also be 63, in the same month.
Last week, City People Publisher, SEYE KEHINDE and his team visited CLAM headquarters to interview Pastor Oladiyun on the recent transformation that the church has been through to enable it to stay relevant, digitally. He also spoke about his wife at 60 and how he has managed to keep looking refreshingly young at 63.
It is a loaded interview and a revealing one too. Below are excerpts of the 2-hour interview.
Can you share with us some of the new ideas you have set in place for CLAM this year?
One thing that is very certain is that the world itself is very dynamic. Dynamism must be an impetus that must be infused into anything that will be lasting. When we come into the Episcopal Circle where you have the church, things are changing globally. Every system must embark on a proper edit, to access the low and high sides of its existence. Sides that must be audio rated, where you need improvement. The global village can be reached by pressing a button on a tablet in your hand, so the church has become so cosmopolitan that staying on the norms of the Bible, you must be able to communicate everything that the Bible stands for to the world. Particularly the upcoming ones, the milineum and the generation Z, so you must be able to package your messages in such a way that you can reach them. Studying their personalities, knowing about their temperament, learning about their short fuse. You cannot be preaching for fathers and think that you will reach the young ones.
So, you must shake up your mode of dissemination, you must be able to align, you must bring in new insights and creativities that will bring in the young ones. Looking at the population, they occupy the larger spectrum. In CLAM, as a leader from my business background, I have imbibed the culture of putting things right. Then, knowing the Bible by the grace of God, I have seen in 1st Corinthians 1:24 “To the Jews and to the Greeks, Jesus the power of God, Jesus the wisdom of God meaning that the supernatural must be there. For people to know that beyond human comprehension, there is the supernatural. That is the power dimension of God, speaking to the red sea, the red sea parted, speaking to the Jordan, Jordan parted, Jericho was falling down without grenades or explosives. The supernatural power of God, someone having the ailment and by speaking the word of God to the person gets healed. That is the power dimension of God. Now, the power dimension of God must be balanced with the wisdom dimension of God. Excellence, being able to pick those things from the Bible and then translate the insights to things that will benefit humanity. There are 7 mountains of influence. In the 7 mountains, the church must be there, media and entertainment, political economy, agriculture and family life. Those mountains of influence worldwide, finance must be there.
So, the church must not lag behind in climbing the mountains, otherwise, the church will lose relevance. For those of us leaders, talking of myself, I know that the Bible says in Luke 2:52: “And Jesus increased in wisdom, stature and in favour with God and man”. Jesus was able to answer all the Pharisees and in his tune because he was a man of wisdom and till tomorrow, he is a man of wisdom. We are drinking from the well of wisdom of God. Now, the world is changing globally, the digital illiteracy that was prevalent before must be removed, so we must prospect digital literacy. So, as a leader, having heard from God that things will change worldwide and then we need to do something in the area of media, so we have to invest in media, human resources, machines and all these things. That is what has given birth to CLAM Gotv that you see. Instead of using the camera, which you bring with all these ropes, we are using robotic cameras there so we can get products that can match what is being seen in Aljazeera and CNN. So that is the wisdom dimension of God. So, as a leader, I began to see where to channel energy, wisdom and know-how, in order for us to be in compliance with the global standard. You will remember sir, that many years ago, one of those prophecies God has said concerning the world is that, Nigeria will go back to farming and Oil will deplete, I said that many years ago. If you check your library, again I am saying it and I have said it early this year that the Lord said there was going to be an epidemic all over the world. It is not in terms of disease but in the area of economy and agric. There will be famine this year. There will be instability in businesses all over the world and only people with insight from God will make it tremendously. The Crypto 3D window must be looked into.
There are things coming up in the Crypto market like everyone must go and prospect knowledge there and run with it. it is not business as usual. All those traditional banks will fold up in a few years’ time. I am speaking prophetically and as a man of knowledge, so what I am talking about is about the wisdom dimension of God that must be in sync with the power dimension of God and the wisdom dimension of God. That will make the Church be relevant, every church must have a department of governance and advocacy. We must engage the Youth in governance and advocacy. We must teach them about the Biblical norms of how they can go into politics and affect humanity. We must have deterrent measures for those who go there and goof. So, these are the things we must do, so that the church can be relevant. We must not lag behind in agriculture. CLAM has 75 hectares of land by the grace of God. We bought this land 13 years ago. Shalom Farm Limited has a mill, that is my wife’s side, they mill Garri there.
We have people working on the farm even during Covid. We have youths working, those youths won’t carry guns, they won’t go out doing rituals because they are properly engaged. I am trusting God that we will be having 1,500 youths working on the farm, living there. We will have Nursery and Primary School and put in some structures there. So, that is how the church can be relevant, that is how the voice of the Church can be heard by the generation Z. It is not about talking to them about Elijah and Elisha, they want to hear about tenacity, mental fortitude, choices and consequences, critical thinking, I have written books on these subjects. So, these are the things that we must do to be relevant. I am an Engineer, I practised Civil Engineering all my life and I still know it till tomorrow. But, I need to embark on self-development to fill up the knowledge gap. You will be lagging behind in that area if you don’t. But you need to go and upgrade yourself to fit it, thank God for the internet, you can learn about spa treatments. So, over time, I have embarked on the journey of self-development and it is helping me. I read, study and do a lot of research even as a Pastor. So that I can fill up the knowledge gap, so I can communicate better to the congregant and everyone, so that the Church can affect them positively. So, we are trusting God that on our farm and land, youths will settle there not just to farm, but for value change. We will not just produce cassava and sell the tuber, we will produce ethanol, biscuit and a lot of things to get them engaged, so we take them from the street. That is how the Church can be better in Nigeria, that is one of the things we are doing in the CLAM Corridor to affect our generation.
In society today, you hear a lot of ritual killings and unrest around the country, what are your solutions as to how we can move out of this cul-de-sac?
There is a reason for everything, if that thing is positive or negative, there is a reason for it. So, when we see a lot of vices all around Nigeria, banditry, rituals among the youths, we don’t need a knee-jerk approach towards what is happening. That will not help us, so what we need to do is to profile the Nigerian system as in it entirety. Let us look at the pre-independence period and the post-independence period and then look at how we got to where we are now. During our time, what the missionaries left for us were preserved by our parents. You go to the Jericho area of Ibadan, you will still see the architecture and the green environment, everything will lead out. You travel from Ibadan to Ondo, the roads made by the engineer, during the time of Awolowo are still intact. We will need to take inventory of the country, we need historians, to dig into the historical archive of Nigeria. We also need economists to give us the history of our economy’s development. Let them look at all the ethnic groups in Nigeria and then narrow everything down to the family system. What we see today starts from the family unit. The family values have broken down. What I do today is owing to the family system I had. I was brought up in a very poor family, talking about material wealth, but I was introduced to Christ so early that I have imbibed Biblical norms helping me to date. We were taught back to them about Godliness, integrity and industry. I remember we were taught about the discipline of work. I will be 63 next month, but I still work, we were taught to work when we were at the University of Ife now Obafemi Awolowo University. Some of us from poor homes myself especially will wait till everybody had eaten then queue so they can give us the remnant without meat. That was how I survived for 5 years.
We were very industrious, during weekends. I will cut hair for people, sell some things. I will take pictures of Bob Marley because I was a Rastafarian then. We will put up our pictures, at the portals lodge for 50 kobo. When we are coming back from the classroom, we will meet the money there and the remnant. That was how I survived, I was also helping to sell at Bigle Magazine then. that was how we were brought up. We worked with our hands to earn our living. We were taught civility, and it is what is helping me today. When I see you, I don’t want to know your faith background, I place value on you. Civility costs nothing but buys you everything, it is a manta. So, those values cannot be wished away, they start from the family engineering system. So what is happening at the top negatively is as a result of the broken family system, so let’s start from the family. What does a 16-year old boy want to do with a Benz, why are the youths wanting to buy cars and sleep in hotels when they are below 19. Do they know what money is all about? So, what are the parents telling them? You model how you want your children to behave. If I am smoking Indian Hemp and drinking Remy and fornicate, my sons will do the same. So, you model how you want to raise your children, when they don’t see me with all those things, they will agree with my lifestyle. It is a pity that parents have lost the value, that is why you see different things now. We need to shake up the parenting system. My sons see the way as a father I run my life. When you ask my children who their role model is they tell you it’s their father. They say their father is articulate, neat, a lover of excellence, a man who prospects knowledge, a man with financial knowledge and financial technology knowledge. With these, I have built a value system in them. If I were to be a cultist, believe me, they will be cultists too.
To the mother also, when a mother is into prostitution, the children will do the same. The mind of every child is an empty slate. In education, it is called a tabular razar, what you soak in is what you will get. At age 11, I lost my father and his cousin came, he was a diplomat, looking for someone to clean his house and I opted to go. I was taken to Ibadan and we were living at Iya Ganku behind NTC. He had a younger brother who was an engineer. While I was there, I was serving the man, he would take me to his brother’s house. His brother discovered that having done all chores, I would be working arithmetic. One day, he asked if I would love to go to school and I told him I wanted to be an engineer like him. He was an engineer and that was how he met his brother and the Director of ITA Chief Akintomi and they sent me to school. The full story can be read in the book I wrote about my mental toughness journey entitled “Mental Fortitude”. When I was living with that diplomat, Mr Joseph Adewakin, and people such as the late Henry Fajemirokun will come there. That was the once wealthiest man in Africa. The ITA Director for admin Mr M. A Akintomide would come there, professor Npeke and others would come. I did not know their names then, but they were people of affluence. They always smell good and as a young boy serving, I would say “I will like to be like these people when I grow up”. What I was seeing was being printed on my subconsciousness, I would watch the way they talk. Then in the evening, they would send me to Oke-Ado to get some things.
I will trek and see my classmates smoking cigarettes and when they called, I refused because of the picture of the people with affluence I saw. That picture stayed with me and see what it has translated to. That brought me to choices and consequences, when you were little, through the bloodline inheritance you resemble your parents because their blood flows in you, but growing up you resemble your choice and decisions in life. So, you better make a positive choice because that is what you will resemble, your choices and decisions. I wrote another book on “Choices and Consequences” I want all the youth to go to “Kindleamazing” to download and read this book. Since I had that picture in my mind I could not do otherwise or carry a gun to rob. When we start from there, Nigeria will begin to take shape. I met with Governor Fayemi recently, he is one of the brilliant minds we have in Africa. Such a man can manage this country, but there are some things in the system that will not make such a man be at the helms of affairs. What plans are there for the younger ones coming? Do they respect the sovereignty of this country? Are they proud of this country? See how many students are in Ukraine because education is cheap there. All because of our system, in those days, I remember that we had foreigners coming to Obafemi Awolowo University, University of Ibadan, and other universities but today those values are gone with the wind. God must help us and we must help ourselves, so let’s start with the family system. When we start from the family system by conquering your child when he/she is too expensive without earning a living, such child will be cautioned. That is how Nigeria will be revived.
What is the secret behind your young look?
The first secret behind me ageing gracefully is the grace of God. “Songs” “Ore Ofe Sa” everything around me answers to the grace of God. Number 2, God has given me a good mind. I don’t like things to go down negatively, when you are doing well I celebrate you, when you don’t do well, I want to pick you up and clean you up and make somebody out of nobody. I have been doing that for years, so when I see the product I am happy. God has given me a very kind heart, I am also a happy person. I make myself happy, I am not in competition with anybody, so I am contented with what God has given me. Another thing is after breathing air, the easiest thing for me to do is to give. Giving is my life, there is nothing I cannot give to make sure things get better and when I give, I am not expecting anything back by the grace of God. Everyone I have done something for, I have never abused because I believe I am covering ground for God. I raise talents, I am a talent nurturer. When they say a person is an addict, given to drugs and there is nothing good that can come out of him, I tell you that John 1:46 “Can anything good come out of Nazareth? and Phillip said: “Come and See” so I say give me the person and by the grace of God, I will take my time, come down to the person’s level to understand him/her. If it is a gutter language I will speak with you to draw you nearer and I will see where to help you. I have a Foundation PAWOF, I use it to train indigent students and things are working when I see the products. Another way God keeps me fresh is by the family system he has given me. My family is so loving and supportive. With the way I am wired, I do a lot of things at the same time, so, I have my family’s support. Then help me thank my wife again, she is a wellness expert. In the morning I do over 26 press up, that is what people in the age of 20-30 cannot do because of what they do. I exercise myself and I tell you she sets the ball rolling. I can fold my body, I don’t need support to jump, I can squat and stay squatting for long. When you exercise your system, it answers to that rhythm so at 85 you will be strong. We also have a spa with a therapist, who visits to do steaming, massage, pedicure, manicure and detox, so we smell well and look well. We are happy and not thinking of something extraordinary and believe in leaving a simple lifestyle because the maintenance is simple. Four years ago I was given brand new cars, I gave them to my workers because I don’t need them. All I need is a good car to take me to where I am going. I also make my home town happy by making donations, that is what I spend money on not clothes and cars. You will not be remembered for the money you have, but what you spent money on. The legacy will live on after you are gone. I also sleep and drink water lavishly. In CLAM while fasting, drink water, it does not break your fast. Drink water so you can have the strength to pray and read the Bible well.
Why are you very passionate about your hometown?
Ile Oluji in Ondo State is my town by the grace of God. I am passionate about the Ile Oluji because it is a town God loves. I just found myself there, in a family where I was born into a CAC family, my father was a farmer and goldsmith who took one to church every day. While Jesus kept appearing to me telling me that I would work for Him even though I did not know what the work was about, it has come to pass. The town has been revived by God, Jesus has taken over the town and good things are coming out of the town. God is using me to do things by the grace of God and God will enable me to give more back. Jesus Arena Resort is a 37-bed world-class resort with 37 lodgings, fast food, halls for events. If it is in Lagos, we will be making 3-5 million naira every weekend. It is in the town and it is helping the town when people saw it 20 hotels have sprung up. So, I am happy that God has used me as a pace-setter to start something good in my town. The children’s ward donated to a general hospital which was dedicated by Governor Mimiko is there and it makes me happy. I hope to do more by the grace of God, then the yearly festival with medical outreach will continue because the town is blessed. I just love the place. If you want to relax go to Ile Oluji, it is a very peaceful, lovely atmosphere and mountains.
Why are you holding a Crusade in Ikenne?
I have been holding crusades for close to 25 years. God tells me where to go, we have been to Delta, Asaba, Igbanke, Akumazi, and many other places, so it is the turn of Ikenne. So, on the 24th-26th of March, we want the people from Ikenne, Iperu, Remo, Ayiepe to please join us at Ikenne Recreation Club Centre. God has sent me there and he said to me that he wants to restore the lost glory of the town of Ikenne. I have never been there before, but God took me there in a revelation. A lot of great people came from there so its lost glory will be restored.
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